Who the Folk?! Cincinnati is Cincy Jewfolk’s new podcast spotlighting the diverse voices shaping Jewish life in the Queen City.
Hosted by Cincy Jewfolk’s editor Sam Fisher, the series features conversations with notable and fascinating Cincinnati Jews—from artists and entrepreneurs to community leaders and culture-shapers.
Each episode dives into personal stories, passions, and perspectives, showing that Jewish life here is anything but one-size-fits-all.The Who the Folk?! Cincinnati podcast is part of the Jewfolk Podcast Network and a product of Jewfolk, Inc.
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Introducing this week’s WTF?! Cincinnati’s guest
Liam Reis is a 5th generation Cincinnati Jew who moved to Israel in early 2024 at the beginning of the war in Israel following October 7th. Liam works in business development in the security and investigations field, and is passionate about the Jewish story, meditation, and geopolitics.
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Show transcript
Sam: Welcome y’all to this week’s episode of Who the Folk Cincy. I’m Sam Fisher, the editor of Cincy Jewfolk. This week on the pod, I get to sit down and talk with Liam Rees. Liam is a born and raised Cincinnatian, but he made Aliyah in the middle of a war. He and I discuss what inspired him to make that move then, and his interest in meditation and spirituality and much, much more.
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Liam: Yeah, well, you know, right off the bat, I’d have to just jump in with a correction, especially because it’s a podcast about Jewish… uh… Jewish community, and I’m here in Israel now, is that my name is actually pronounced Liam. It’s a, it’s a Hebrew name. My mom was, my mom was originally going to name me Liam after liking that name based off the actor Liam Neeson. The funny story is she was actually pregnant with me while watching Schindler’s List, which is how she kind of had the name come across her mind. A funny story. But then she looked in a Hebrew name book and saw that it was, there’s a Hebrew name Liam with the Hebrew letter, ayn, and it means, like, my nation, my people. And I think it’s a name that fueled a lot of my connection to the Jewish people and Israel and everything. I think it had a big, big impact for me. At the end of the day.
Sam: I apologize, I apologize…
Liam: No, no, not necessary.
Sam: But Liam, I think that’s a very interesting story. I don’t think I think that’s a very unique way to come up with a baby name. I’m sure not many other people came up with their child’s name while watching the great film, a very sad and brutal film, Schindler’s List. So I think, you know, we kind of all know maybe the answer to this. But where are you from? Where’d you grow up?
Liam: Yeah, so I’m from Cincinnati. I grew up going to what was then Yav in the day school, and is now called Rockwern Academy. I went there, to that Jewish private school until I was in the fifth grade. And in the fifth grade, I started at the sycamore school system until I graduated, but still going to Sunday school, Merkaz, Sunday High School at Adath Israel until I graduated high school and yeah, so from Cincinnati, spent pretty much my whole life in Ohio because I went to Kent State University near Cleveland. So I spent almost my whole life in Ohio, besides making several trips throughout my life to Israel and then having a stint where I spent about three months in Dubai for a public diplomacy program at a large Expo the World Fair that they hosted in Dubai. So, yeah, I’ve had some so some bits and pieces of travel, but really have mainly always been Ohio based until I moved to Israel in February of 2024.
Sam: And was moving to Israel, something you always wanted to do, was there always like an inkling there? Or was it something that just kind of grew stronger and stronger as you got older?
Liam: Yeah, so I wanted to move to Israel for about 10 years before I made Aliyah and made the decision to finally do so. I decided I wanted to make Aliyah and move to Israel in 20 I believe it was like fall of 2015 it almost came to me as an epiphany that was something I really wanted and felt like was a big part of my, my life’s journey. And it wasn’t until 2024 like nine years later, although over nine years later, that I finally made the move. But I was going to make Aliyah in 2020 during the pandemic, and then I just got caught up with life, affairs and relationships and things like that, and I didn’t end up fully making the move. I had almost all of the paperwork done, but didn’t end up doing it in 2020 and then the story is that after October 7, a month later, my grandma passed away, and she was a big role model and hero for me. And so it kind of put into perspective after October 7 and then that, and then my cousin surprising us from Israel for the Shiva, and then flying back to Israel, all put into perspective of where I want to be. Going with my life, where I want it, where I’ve wanted to be for a long time, and how I just have to finally rip off the band aid.
Sam: And what was going on. And, you know, you said you kind of decided you wanted to make this move nine years ago or 10 years ago now, what was going on in 2014/2015 that kind of made that, that epiphany, come to you? What kind of made it clear for you well?
Liam: So not long before that, I studied abroad in high school. My first trip to Israel was at Alexander Muss High School in Israel, where you get a very strong Zionist education. You learn about the country and Jewish history, and then you travel to those places around Israel that you’re learning about. And that was in 2013 at the end of the school year, and then about a year or two to about a about a summer after that, or two summers after that, I read a book by one of the teachers called of A Voice Called: Stories of Jewish Heroism. I think that’s what it’s called. I might be butchering the name by a teacher that was very popular there named Yossi Katz, I think, but he’s now past, passed away, but his book, like, kind of re, re recharged me of everything I had learned on the program of basically, like the biggest stars of Jewish and Israeli history, like these, these amazing heroes that were so inspirational. So that kind of like got back into my mind a little bit. And then basically what was going on then was I was just going through a little bit of a difficult time with personal life and figuring out what I’m trying to do at university, and what I really want to study is of connections to to the people, like I did, the Israeli people who I had friends from. I had friends from Israel all my life, and family that I was close with, even in Cincinnati. And so it just I was going through a lot, is the short answer. And I and I just decided it just came to me almost as an epiphany. And then after that epiphany, I had really only been to Israel one time, but then I continued to go to Israel six more times before I finally made Aliyah. So once, I kind of had that epiphany, and then continued to travel to Israel afterwards. Each time I went to Israel, it was just kind of more and more cemented that it was it was the path I wanted to take. And once I got here, it just Hashem, like pretty much has lined things up for me so, so generously that, like it just feels like it’s been the right decision from the get go, and I’ve had really, no, I really haven’t looked back much at all, despite the difficulties of the war, which have been challenging.
Sam: You know, when you kind of talk about, you know, you kind of didn’t really feel at home for a long time, at least in America or in Cincinnati. I think a lot of Cincinnatians can maybe relate to that, especially when you’re growing up. What were some of the things that maybe were making you feel like maybe you weren’t really like fitting in? Was it being at Kent State? Was it in high school? Was it? Was it trying to figure out what you’re going to study? Was it one of those things it sounds like it was kind of all of those things. Was there, like a specific instance, or a building of trends or something like that that made you feel that way?
Liam: I think I felt like a little bit of an outsider as a Jewish, as a Jewish person. I think I felt very, very strong in my sense of Jewish identity all my life. And grew up with a family, an extended family that was very not religious, but very traditional.
Sam: But you said you kind of feeling a little bit like an outsider. It’s just like a Jew in America or Jew in Cincinnati. Were there things that were making you feel like an outsider? Was it just sort of like feeling a braze, feeling like a struggle against kind of the mainstream culture that was prevalent growing up.
Liam: Yeah, I think maybe there’s definitely a cultural thing about America and the society and various aspects of the way the society is structured and the way the I think there’s a bit of a decay in family values in America too. But on top of that, you know also, the healthcare system and education system is much more, I think, humane in Israel, which is why it’s ranked so frequently as one of the happiest countries. But on top of that, also it’s just feeling, feeling, I guess, Cincinnati, you know, it doesn’t have the largest Jewish community, in Ohio doesn’t have the largest Jewish community, but, I mean, Cleveland certainly does. But yeah, just feeling like more of a bit of an outsider, and feeling just more at home, more at home in Israel, more at home around Jews, even though I have non Jewish friends who, you know, I really appreciate and really respect, and I think they have, you know, great neshamas, just wonderful souls, but just at the end of the day knowing where I feel more at home and who I feel more at home around. And that’s not just only the fact that I think they’re Jewish – It’s a Jewish country in Israel – but also just the Israeli people and the. Israeli personality. I’ve just always found them so amusing, amusing and funny and confident, and then just really, really, always just enjoyed that aspect as well.
Sam: Let’s talk more about like, kind of growing up in Cincinnati, and just kind of how this kind of identity that you proudly speak about kind of got formed, as you mentioned before you went to the school formerly known as Yavneh, now known as Rockhorn. And was that sort of where you feel like your strong Jewish identity was formed, or do you think it was more solidified once you left that system and kind of had to go interact in a world that wasn’t just strictly Jewish.
Liam: Yeah, that’s such a great question the way you put it, I think when I left the system and then was in a new system that wasn’t as strongly Jewish, but maintained my identity and my Jewish study by my parents, I thank them that they put me through, like, Sunday school and Sunday high school all the way up until I graduated. And the older I got, the more I actually enjoyed, like it went from going to Jewish Day School and then going to Sunday school was something, you know, just being a troublesome kid was something that I, you know, really, really didn’t want to be doing, and I really disliked it. As I got older and more mature, I came to really, actually enjoy what I was studying and learning about, and it all kind of solidified. And then there was someone who was in my life, who you had on the podcast. You know, she was in my life at Yavna and good friends with my cousins and became a good friend of mine over the years is Lainey Rickler. She, when I studied abroad in high school in Israel, I stayed with her on the Kibbutz She was at while she was at the very beginning of her long career in the army. She was during, one of her training programs, I stayed with her and the other soldiers on the Kibbutz they were all staying at, and just stayed, stayed friends with her, and always kind of came to her for advice. So there were definitely role models that played a big part in all of it. Many, many role models, which, when I made Aliyah, I made sure to try to mention as many that could come to mind who really helped put me on the trajectory of making my dream happen, of of moving to Israel.
Sam: You know, at first you were a little bit resistant to your Jewish education, until suddenly you started making a little bit more sense to you. What were the things that started to make more sense to you? Was it a specific thing? Is it a specific teacher, a specific type of learning that started to make more sense to you? Or was it just a gradual build over time?
Liam: I think stories of Jewish heroism have been a big thing for me, because in America, the American Jewish identity and the traditional American Jewish archetype isn’t quite as much on the tough and rumble side as like the Israeli Jew in terms of everything they go through in the in the military and and these stories you hear about of like the Mossad and things like that around the world and how they operate. So I think I as an American Jew, I didn’t really like always know until I got older, about all these stories of Jewish heroism from uprisings during the Holocaust and World War Two, and stories of of Israel, whether it’s all the all the wars they fought and won, to these existential wars, or the Mossad going on his daring operation to kidnap Adolf Eichmann and bring him to justice in Israel. So and also ancient stories of Jewish heroism, the Bar Kochba revolt, the story of Hanukkah, various stories about, like, uprisings against the Romans and all these, all these stories of Jewish heroism, I think, played a, played a really big role.
Sam: And was there a specific story that you remember that kind of woke you up, that kind of made your ears peek up a little bit during your education before you decided to move to Israel?
Liam: I always liked reading books and watching movies and and things like that about the Mossad, I think. And we’ve heard so much throughout this war about about what they’ve done only, only during the time timeframe of this this war. But if you look at all of Israeli history and pre Israel history, the things they were doing before it was fully officially established. I think those stories always stuck out to me, and that’s why I actually work in a in freelance I work in a I have a freelance business where I work with the private sector intelligence, intelligence industry. So these are people who. Maybe got out of public sector and government intelligence work, and they take their skills to the private sector. So that’s kind of what my work is related to now. So, and I think that’s all been inspired by those unbelievable stories you hear during this war and just throughout Israel’s history about an organization like that. So I think the heroics of those types of operations have always been like, wow, look at what we can do as as Jewish people. It’s it’s incredible. Yeah.
Sam: And how did you get into, I mean, that’s a very interesting freelance work to be in, freelancing for security firms. How did you get into that kind of work? Did you have a background and you know, you said you went to Dubai to do a diplomacy course. Was that something you started studying in college? Or is that something that came to you after college and post grad work?
Liam: After college, really. So I had a background in international programs, international program leadership and international relations. I also worked for Jewish National Fund as an admissions director for their Israel programs. And then I, and then after, I, after, I did quite a few programs and international, international activities Dubai or Israel. And I switched into sales and business development. But I, when I moved to Israel, I had always had the passion and interest in the security field and intelligence. So after doing so much great networking and getting to know so many people in that field, in public or private sector, I I started a business where I where I do, basically business development and sales for the private sector intelligence industry, but globally and intelligence, you usually think of it as being very secretive. And in the private sector, it still is very sensitive and secretive, but at the same time, if you, if you’re in this field on LinkedIn, everyone is just so, so active. It’s a very, very active field on LinkedIn. And LinkedIn is such a, such a such a staple of the business. So it’s so different in that way, from the public sector, which is kind of amusing, that you you have to like develop a personality and and a brand, even though it’s a public profile.
Sam: It’s definitely not something I think most people would expect. So you’ve been in Israel for almost two years now, right?
Liam: Yes.
Sam: Tell me a little bit about the last couple of years. You know, we’ve kind of talked about how you kind of worked up, not only the courage, but the with the idea and the in the will to move to Israel. And you did so in a delicate time. You did so in the middle of a devastating war. What was your first we’ll say six months in Israel? Like, what was it like?
Liam: Wow, first six months were really, the best, best, best months of my life, I would say I was I experienced an Aliyah honeymoon phase where I, like, finally made the move I’d been dreaming of for a long time. And the move went really well, and has continued to go really well, despite the challenges of the war, mainly, and and everything. So I really just think those first six months, especially, we’re just like, really, I was on, I was, I was on such a high, I’ve got to be honest, like it was really incredible. And I I really just was getting to know the country surrounded by amazing people, because I was living in a mercaz clita, that’s an immigrant absorption center run by the Jewish Agency. So I’m surrounded by Jews from all over the world, and also a lot of Russians with, like, various types of Jewish backgrounds in their family who are basically fleeing Russia, or also Ukrainians fleeing Ukraine and coming to Israel for for a better life. And so it was so diverse. I’ve always, as you may imagine, from what I shared about my background, I’ve always loved diversity and international like aspects in my life. So just being in this community that was so diverse was so fun, even though we were living like, living like, very, very rustically in these in these immigrant absorption centers.
Sam: What do you mean by rustically? Like what was life like, what was the daily life like in the absorption center?
Liam: Oh, these buildings are just really old buildings built really like, simplistically, the most basic kitchen you could imagine, no oven, no real stove top, only one that like plugs into the wall that has like two panels to use as a stove. You’ve got to get all of your own utensils and microwaves and things like that. It’s a it’s just, it’s just like living in almost a glorified campus school for troubled youth or something like that. Was, it was. Is what it kind of feels like you’re living in and, and they actually did a lot of renovations, and have cleaned it up a lot since I moved out of there. They added a lot. There was, like, almost no couches to really, like, sit on and note, like, barely any spaces for just, like, relaxing and, and like so like enjoying your evening. It was just very, very sparse, very rustic, but they’ve added quite a few renovations to it since, only recently, when I moved out. But that was a that was a lot of fun. Though I was, I was the happiest I’ve ever been though at the same time and my Israeli fiance, who I’m engaged to now…
Sam: Mazel tov! When did you meet her?
Liam: I met her in about eight months into my Aliyah. She was the sheliach, the Jewish emissary to my Hillel at my university I went to, but only after I graduated, and we had been connected on social media, and so we just connected through social media after I moved here and moved in, we moved in together very quickly, and then got engaged in like, just under a year of dating, and now we’re planning our wedding and Baruch Hashem.
Sam: Yeah, okay, so you had sort of, maybe that could have added to your Aliyah honeymoon bliss a little bit, but that’s wonderful. So what were kind of the most challenging things as you move back because, or as you move to to Israel, because you know you were moving during a time of an act of war? So what did you find to be the most challenging besides maybe re picking up the language or kind of adjusting to a new culture?
Liam: Well, exactly, picking up the language has continued to be a challenge, and I’ve made a lot of progress, but still have a lot of progress to be made. But besides that, like I mentioned, it was those first six months that were such a honeymoon phase, but also in the first six months we weren’t dealing with as much missile attacks and as we really were after that, six months after I was in Israel for six months or so, eight months or so, that’s when things started to really pick up with the war, because that’s when we started to really get into it with Hezbollah, which everyone was terrified of, but because Israel had these daring operations with the Mossad and the beepers and the Israeli Air Force did these massive waves of attacks to take out all of their so many of their missile launch systems, the war with Hezbollah ended up being a lot less frightening than people imagined it would be. But I think it was around six months after I moved there, we had the first Iran attack, and that was that was pretty, pretty intense. And I think another challenge that I faced was the fact that I’m moving to Israel, and I’m kind of in this Aliyah honeymoon phase. I’m so happy to be in Israel, but also adjusting this was like a a hardcore like culture shock, which I understood would be likely, is adjusting to the fact that Israelis aren’t, you know, feeling the same way right now in Israel, Israelis are in, you know, the country’s in a very, very dark place. So I’m on the one hand, understanding that the country is that we’re facing a really sad situation with the war in the hostages, but I’m also like on cloud nine, because I finally made my dream come true. So it was very complicated. And I think with that challenge, one of the most meaningful things I was able to do was just telling Israelis, when they asked, What’s wrong with you, why would you move here right now? And telling them, you know, even though it’s a challenging time, and I definitely feel the feel the pain that’s in this country right now, I’m happier and more at peace than I’ve ever been in my life. And Israelis would be very, very moved hearing that from new immigrants from olim chadashim.
Sam: Yeah, after that six months, that’s when you start having to deal with things like missile attacks and things that Israelis have been dealing with, you know, most of them dealing with their whole lives, right? Whether it be rocket attacks or the threat of missile attacks. What was it like for you dealing with those for the first time or the first few months?
Liam: Yeah, so in the beginning, because of all the build up that even so many Israelis had for what a war with Hezbollah would look like, there was a lot of fear in the beginning, but that it just became normal, and we saw how well our defenses were doing and how well our offenses against Hezbollah were doing that it was I just became used to it, as any other Israeli has become and and just, you know, I’ve been in the shelter. I’ve been in the shelter, like I would say over, I think, over 200 times at this point.
Sam: How soon did it become routine?
Liam: It became routine the first that, I think, the first, I think the first siren I got, I was at a bus stop, kind of on in the middle of the road, so I had no shelter. I was just under the bus stop, which wasn’t one of those makeshift shelters, and that one was a little wild, and the explosion was pretty close overhead – the interception. But it became routine once it really started becoming a pattern and becoming a regular thing, I think it became routine in a matter of, like, a couple weeks with points, but there would be points for us new immigrants, friends of mine, too, um, where you you feel it, you feel the stress, and you feel the anxiety of the situation a little bit more acutely. It just kind of comes in random waves where, like, either you’re just completely used to it and it’s not bothering you almost at all, or it actually is maybe, maybe you have something else going on in your day, or something like that, where it actually does kind of like seep in, and you feel a little bit more this time, like a little a little more anxious, maybe a little more fear. And what I have noticed, and I’ve talked about with my Israeli fiance, and recently met up with my friend, who’s American from Cincinnati, and his Israeli husband also, like we me and we all talked about how, yeah, for the art, for the Israelis, you know, they’re just so used to it, it really doesn’t bother them very much at all. But for us, new immigrants to the country, we do tend to sometimes still feel it a little bit more because, you know, it’s, it’s still new for us, at the end of the day.
Sam: When you were at that first one, when you were talking about in that bus stop with no real protection, you just kind of had to get down and stay safe as best you could. Were you having any thoughts of regret? Were you like, what am I doing here? Were there anything … what was kind of running through your head in that, in that moment?
Liam: I had been in Israel for a few weeks or months without a siren, and then after that, I went, I went through a few weeks or months again without a siren. That was also the only Hamas one, one of the only Hamas sirens I had, because we took care of them so, so quickly. And I was laying there with a teenage girl and an elderly woman flat on our stomachs. And so I was thinking, wow, this is wild. I expected this would be kind of part of life here, but, and here it is. Here’s like my initiation. But then it became, um, so, so routine. And when it became so so routine, I never regretted moving here, but what I would occasionally miss is the peace and quiet of Cincinnati and the peace and quiet of Colorado, where my sister and close friends live, and and especially Colorado, I would just miss, like, the nature, the quiet, the peace, and I would occasionally miss and long for, like, a visit to those places, but no, no desire, really, to move back. But, you know, we can, it’s a whole nother. It’s a whole nother segment of the podcast, or we can get into it now, of how things looked a whole lot different. Even though it all became so routine, things looked a whole lot different for everyone in this country, Israeli or immigrant, when it came to the 12 day war with Iran, that was a whole nother story for sure.
Sam: You’ve lived through, you know, basically like four wars in the span of living there for a year and a half. And as you just mentioned, like you know, one of the most intense chapters that was the when the kind of cold war between Iran and Israel jumped into a hot war with retaliatory strikes back and forth. And you mentioned earlier how kind of hearing those sirens became routine. But I feel like in those 12 days, as you mentioned, there was nothing really routine about any of that that happened, then, how did you deal with that?
Liam: Yeah, so with the 12 day war with Iran, that’s when you’re not only getting routine sirens, but you’re routinely in the shelter multiple times deep in the middle of the night, for the sake of, I think when Iran can most easily get away with attacks under the cover of night. But also it’s really effective psychological warfare. The whole country was completely sleep deprived for like, almost two weeks. And you’re not only also then in the siren in the shelter so many times a day and then so many times a night, but you’re also hearing almost each time, you’re hearing waves and waves of loud explosions shaking the shelter. It’s really it’s really wild. So I think not to sound tough or dramatic or anything like that, but I think you really kind of in whenever there’s, like frequent sirens in the wars going on. You might think about this, but during that period of time with the 12 day war with Iran, when it was so violent and and and escalatory, you really have to kind of like, make peace with the fact that there’s a chance you might die. It’s really just, it’s really just, like, very sobering, and I think it’s why this country is so spontaneous. In this country, the people really like live fully there. You see the cafes and bars are always full, and people really live like there’s no tomorrow. And you see why when there’s a significant attack like that. I think something that really helped me get through it is I’ve practiced meditation since I was 15, so since meditation gives you a lot of energy. Also calms you at the same time. So that was a perfect recipe during the sleep deprivation and the stress of the war with Iran, was really leaning into my meditation routine, which I’m very evangelic about meditation, and how helpful that can be and and then on top of that, I think, yeah, you know, we had, there were impacts in the neighboring towns. We live in a very like random small town on the border of Peta Tikva and Ramat Gan, close to Tel Aviv, and we’re hearing about impacts and deaths in both Peta Tikva, both Ramat Gan, Tel Aviv, and then, and then you’re having an even down south in Beersheva. So you’re knowing it’s like all around you, kind of inching closer to you, and you just really never know. And now, at the same time, I’m hearing indications that there could be another flare up with Iran in the near future, that the job really isn’t finished, that they have nuclear materials that weren’t destroyed. They’re rearming. They’re rebuilding their offensive and offensive and defensive capabilities and and then there’s so many theories about, is it only going to escalate again with Iran because Bibi and his coalition want to have a reason to basically stay in power. That’s that’s one talking point that you hear about. I’m pretty moderate politically. It’s a very political country in a very, very, very divisive politics here, just like in the US. But I, I think also maybe being a little bit of an outsider in some way, I look at it from a more moderate perspective and kind of centered politically. But I think, you know, there’s, there could be all kinds of reasons, and that’s just another just to know that that could flare up again is wild. And I think when the Iran war was going on, I really only wanted it to end if we truly went all the way to decapitating that regime, that awful regime, for everything it does to the region and its own people. And if it does flare up again, then I just really hope, if for any reason, it flares up again, let’s at least finish the job there, because this regime has just got to go.
Sam: I think what something you mentioned there was really interesting, especially when you’re talking about, you know, sitting in those shelters and feeling the rocking and kind of that sobering feeling of having to sort of confront your mortality in a very real and visceral way. And he talked about how you kind of were able to center yourself in your meditation practice, which you’ve been doing now since you were 15. I kind of want to just delve into that really quickly. Do you think, you know, because you’ve been very chill about most of the, you know, most of the things we’ve been talking about, you’re like, “Yeah, you know, the missile attacks were hard, but, you know, I kind of got through it.” And it seems like a lot of your life is sort of centered in this meditative space, almost. It seems like, at least from, from my perspective, as you’re speaking, how did you start meditating? What got you into meditation and and kind of having that be a touchstone for your life?
Liam: Yeah, I think, I think similar to the fact that the epiphany I had about wanting to make Aliyah came to me during a time that was a little bit more of a difficult time, time for me, but then proved to be like a sound decision over over the years, and after actually doing it, meditation also came to me in a time where I was just going through a different difficult part. You know, I was in like, the middle of high school, I think I was only a sophomore in high school. And you know, during those angsty teenage years, all kinds of things can be going on for you, for your mental health, for everything, everything along those lines…
Sam: What was going on for you? I know a lot of things can be for a lot of people, but I want to know about what your experience was, not necessarily a general experience, what was going on for you?
Liam: Yeah, you know, I think I just, I think I could be a very angry kid sometimes, or I could be a very stressed and like I could be very, very, very I found, I found to find itself to be very, very stressed. I don’t know why. I just had a lot of just a lot of range of emotions, even though I was also, you know, I had so many I had so many friends. I had such a great friend group. I had a lot of great family and and a lot of great like support systems in my life. But I just still, you know, found myself struggling sometimes with feelings of depression or sadness or feelings of stress or feelings of anger and things like that as a teenager, and and, and I it really came to me one time when I was on vacation with family. And on this vacation, I started, you know, we were on the beach, we were by a beach, and I started to spend time going to going to the beach on that. vacation and discovering, basically meditation on my own. I just like, the first thing I practiced was just sitting and listening to the sounds around me, whether it’s the waves or the animals. And just like started my first meditation I just kind of stumbled upon was tuning into the things I can hear in my surroundings. And that kind of created this really amazing feeling like, like so many different styles of meditation can give you such an incredible natural high. And I basically just stumbled upon a technique on my own, and it gave me that natural high that meditation can give whether you do a number of techniques. And so then I returned home from vacation, my mom started to discover I was taking up an interest in meditation. And my mom, when she was 15, she her parents paid for her to do a transcendental meditation course. TM, TM, yeah, yeah, famous among like Jerry Seinfeld, Oprah Winfrey, The Beatles, The Hollywood elite.
Sam: David Lynch..
Liam: Yeah, of course! And so, so my mom did that when she was a teenager, so then now I’m the same age, starting to get into meditation a little bit. My mom pays for me to take this Tm course, and that’s mantra, it’s mantra, meditate, meditation. And I just get really into that. Get really into it. Over the years. Shortly before I made Aliyah, I had, like a very, very deep Buddhist phase in Cincinnati, joining, like a Buddhist temple and community in Cincinnati.
Sam: Dharma, the Dharma Center in Northside.
Liam: There’s Dharma Center north side that I went to, but more commonly, I was going to the Cincinnati Zen Center in in a really rough part of town. I don’t remember where that is, exactly what part of town that is, but at the Cincinnati Zen Center is where I would spend most of my time. And with them, I volunteered at a maximum security prison in Lebanon, Ohio, north of Cincinnati, and I led meditation in the prison. And for me, that’s the most meaningful thing I’ve actually had the chance to do in my life, was leading meditation in that prison setting, and then once I made Aliyah, that became, I think, the most meaningful thing I’ve had the chance to do in my life. But the second most meaningful thing was definitely leading meditation for these inmates in prison. Because if I had already known for myself that meditation was a superpower, it was only completely validated for me by the effect I saw it had on these inmates who had committed all kinds of crimes and been through all these different things in their lives. So that was a that was a really powerful, powerful experience.
Sam: You know, you’re attracted to meditation in a way that I think a lot of people get attracted to meditation, they feel kind of like a storm inside of them, or they feel a lot of different things happening inside of them. Do you think you were also sort of drawn to meditation, or those feelings were kind of some of the things that made you feel a little bit like an outsider, right? Felt like you were a bit of an outsider. Always growing up, sort of in Cincinnati, being in being in the States, and, you know, it’s sort of interesting that you go from being a bit of an outsider, you find this meditation which helps you center yourself. And I’m sure that’s partially what allowed you to make that epiphany, is being able to quiet your mind so that, as they say, that still small voice could chime in. And I find it interesting, because now you’ve moved to Israel, where you’re not necessarily part of the outside, but because you are a recent immigrant, you are a little bit removed, right? As you were kind of saying before, with your political stances, right? You have a little bit of with your political stances. You have a little bit of distance from it. And do you feel like through a lot of your life, you, you know, maybe even through your meditation practice, it allows you to have distance on things and gives you sort of that even kind of keel that we were talking about before?
Liam: Yeah, first of all, I love that question. And second of all, I just love the direction the podcast is going. You know, it’s taken me back to my meditation and mindfulness podcast I used to do. This is so this is so fun to to get such insightful and interesting questions about the whole experience. I think of meditation as well. I think my answer to that question is yes. It gives you distance. Because I think one of the key things meditation provides, and you know, in in different traditions, in different religious traditions, like Buddhism, there’s enlightenment or Nirvana, and Judaism, there’s also forms of awakening. And I’m much more committed to just solely my Jewish practice these days, besides including meditation even. But I think in that state of like enlightenment or awakening is the better term I’ve heard, awakening. I think you it really can be summed up by the fact that you’re in on the joke. So that’s that means, you know, just being in on the joke means just looking at life and the world, and, you know, humanity, which is so filled with beauty, but also sick, sickness and evil. I think being in on the joke allows you to just understand that a I think it has to do with understanding the impermanence of everything. Understanding, uh, how much we don’t know and how much we don’t really understand about reality. And, yeah, just being in on the joke. And that’s something I really enjoy about meditation, is it gives me more objectivity.
Sam: In that vein, you know, you kind of talked about your Jewish practice of meditation, or, I don’t know what you would call it, maybe to Tefillah, maybe something else. What? What is your meditation practice like now?
Liam: Well, now I think it’s often similar to like I have always been involved in mantra meditation from the beginning. So now I do a mantra inside my mind of the Holy, holy name for Hashem, for God, the yud, hey, Vav, hey, name, and thinking about some of the deeper meanings that people can learn around what that name really means and how it’s structured the way it is. And so I kind of like repeat the name almost in my mind a little bit, and think about the spiritual implications of it. I also think of another phrase that is associated with Hashem, which is ain od milvado. Ain od milvado means there is nothing else. Have you heard that before that one?
Sam: That one I haven’t, no.
Liam: It means there is nothing else. So it’s kind of thinking about, you know, in the Shema, the Jewish prayer, the Shema, we think about, we say that Hashem is one, but a lot of people interpret that Hashem is one thing, as Hashem is oneness. And the concept of oneness has been just a big part of, I think my meditation, and my Jewish meditation, is thinking of a Ain od milvado. There is nothing else. There is nothing else but this, this oneness, this and every everything else is kind of like a impermanent river or stream of reality that we can sort of just be in on the joke on I guess,
Sam: Yeah, I do like that. Being in on the joke, it’s kind of the concept of the cosmic giggle, right? It’s kind of everything is, if you zoom out far enough, it all makes sense in its place, but it’s just sometimes trapped in the day to day and you forget. You know, there’s a spark of the divine, or God, or whatever you want to call it, that essence in everything. You know, there’s this great Hasidic story that I was just reading about. You know, the thing, it’s from Rabbi Nachman, and he talks about this king and his advisor. You know, everyone’s about to go crazy in the kingdom, and they’re not sure what to do. And they can either stay locked up in their castle, or they can go about and they decide, in the story that they’re going to mark themselves. So when they see each other, they remember that they are in a state of madness. They’re both crazy. But to me, I mean, what that means is like you have to be able to come out of your madness. And remember, we both have that. Everyone’s got that little bit in them.
Liam: I love that. I’d love to read. I’d love to find that story online, if you can send that to me. That sounds really up my– you said cosmic giggle before, where is that from?
Sam: That’s from a Deepak Chopra book I read years ago.
Liam: He’s a classic.
Sam: He is a classic, yeah. And also, there’s, I think, Ram Dass, the nice Jewish boy from Harvard, Richard Alpert, I think, talks about it a little bit as well.
Liam: Ram Dass and Jack Kornfield. Those guys have been big for me, especially because Ram Dass was so big for my mom. So yeah, my parents and their background of growing up in the 60s and 70s, really, I think, helped me be so interested in all this stuff. And be it, I’d be the old soul that I think I am. It’s a fun world to be involved with. Get that dabbling in meditation and spirituality. And I think I’ve there’s a there’s a woman named Dr. Lisa Miller, who’s Jewish, and she’s pretty popular on social media. Goes on the Mel Robbins show a lot, I think, and she talks about the importance of spiritual health. And spiritual health is, even if you consider yourself an atheist, spiritual health is of great importance, because spiritual health doesn’t have to mean God. It can mean other things that you do for yourself and for your spiritual health, that that that is almost just as important for your overall health as so many other things.
Sam: What have you been doing besides your meditation to kind of keep that spiritual health right now, because I feel like right now Israel and the region are in this sort of state of flux right there. There’s a lot of like known unknowns at the moment, with the ceasefire still holding, or going back to holding, and the release of the hostages, and now the eventual hopeful return of all the deceased hostages. You know, what are things you’re doing?
Liam: Yeah, I think I’ve been into creative activities for a while, like writing poetry especially, and lately I picked up drawing and painting, and that’s been really addicting and really fun as, especially if you know any war were to escalate. I think really leaning into this new hobby of drawing and painting and writing poetry is going to be something that I’ll continue really enjoying. And then I also like going to Beit Knesset, to synagogue in my, I check out different synagogues that are within like a 5, 10 minute walk, which is like a dream compared to what life was like in Cincinnati, of always having to make like, a 20 minute drive. Yeah, so I take a 5, 10 minute walk to different synagogues and talk a little bit with different people in my broken Hebrew. And I enjoy like, you know, I’ve gotten equally as present in my meditation practice as I’ve gotten even in synagogue and holding English siddur, prayer book and going along with the prayers. It’s also, for me, very, very meditative and really enjoyable. So those have been a few things
Sam: With the release of the hostages. How have things been in Israel since that point? I’m sure a lot of people are wondering what it’s like, how things kind of changed. Has divided, has the has your feeling changed? How do things seem to you?
Liam: I think a massive weight has, has been lifted. There was pure ecstasy in the streets. It feels absolutely incredible. We’re so thankful. We’re so thankful. The country is very thankful to President Trump, Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner and these people for really saving us when our leadership couldn’t. That’s where I will be happy to get political with the fact that it was really not our leadership that brought the hostages home. But American leadership, that’s just a fact. And and President Trump seemed actually really, really, like, really touched by the stories of the hostages, who made sure, who were always like, welcomed inside the White House. And really, you know that these hostage families and these were turned it’s actually not only you know, it’s not only the American the American Trump administration, that brought these hostages home. These hostages were brought home by their families at the end of the day and by former hostages who have been released. I mean, it’s just another story of Jewish heroism that people who have been returned from the cages and tunnels of Gaza under these Hamas Nazis have, like really, gone and saved their fellow brothers and sisters from those tunnels and cages themselves. And so it’s been pure ecstasy. A weight has been lifted.
Sam: We’re nearing wrapping up our time. I kind of want to move into our Cincy Jewfolk questionnaire, which is a little bit adapted because you’re not in Cincinnati, so a lot of the questions have to be changed. But we’ll start with the first question, what’s your ideal Shabbat?
Liam: Yeah, I think, I think the pie in the sky. Way to spend it is either at home, just me and my fiance and we do, maybe I go to Beit Knesset beforehand, but we do dinner together at the table and and and then take a walk around the neighborhood at night in the in the air that is much cooler now, thankfully, or it’s nice that I have this little family here with me, and spent a lot of time, and I spend most Shabbats, though, going with Carmel to her moms, who lives in the heart of Tel Aviv, next to Dissengoff square. We have Shabbat in this in her cute Tel Aviv apartment, spend time talking about all sorts of different things, eating, eating together and then, and then taking a walk through streets of Tel Aviv and maybe along the beach, because it’s like a 10 Minute, 10-15 minute walk to the beach, and we’re walking along the beach at night. So that’s it. Can’t get too much better than that, and I definitely have started to occasionally take it for granted, but eating Shabbat dinner with my fiance and future mother in law in the heart of Tel Aviv and then walking along the beach.
Sam: I think you’ve made a lot of people want to, want to make aliyah right now, especially for a post Shabbat nighttime beach stroll. Would be ideal for almost everyone.
Liam: Yeah, hearing myself, hearing myself say, it reminds me how I cannot be taking it for granted like I occasionally do. It’s pretty it’s pretty great.
Sam: You know, I can’t ask you what your ideal day in Cincinnati is.
Liam: No, you absolutely can.
Sam: What’s your what would be your ideal day here in Cincinnati?
Liam: No, yeah, this is one of my favorite questions so far. I think my ideal day in Cincinnati is going to either the Cincinnati Art Museum or the contemporary art museum, spending time then in Mount Adams and Eden Park, getting some Skyline going at the end of the going to bridges Nepali cuisine in north side. Or there’s other locations but North Side location, that’s the that’s the GOAT location.
Sam: Yeah, that’s the best one.
Liam: Yeah, and then, and then ending the night with friends going to, I think, Somerset bar,
Sam: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it sounds like a fantastic day. I’d like to spend that day in Cincinnati. That would be great. The next question, is there a Jewish teaching or saying or phrase that kind of that you come back to again and again. This could be a teaching of Torah. This would be mission in the Talmud, something like that. Or it could even be like, just like a quote from, like, somebody like Ellie Weisel, or,
Liam: Yeah, I think two things come to mind based off how you put the question, the the Ancient One would be, and the one according to a Jewish religion, and and and texts would be the Kabbalistic concept we discussed before, ain od milvado, there is nothing else, that’s such a deep concept that I love meditating on, on the concept of Hashem and on oneness. And then a contemporary quote would be an Israeli leader. I think this was Ben Gurion or Golda Meir, I don’t remember, but like David, Ben Gurion definitely said something along the lines of, to be as a Jew, in order to be a realist, you have to believe in miracles. And then I think it was Golda Meir who said something along the along lines of how a Jew can’t afford to not be an optimist, or something like that.
Sam: Two great quotes. Yeah, you are correct. It’s Ben Gurion, that first one. Before we go, this is the last question that I like to ask everyone, which is, what is something that you want to mention that we didn’t talk about that we didn’t hit on so much?
Liam: I think just Jewish unity is something I would maybe want to leave off on Jewish unity, because, you know, in Israel, you have a lot of animosity towards the fact that the Haradim don’t, don’t serve in the army and and that’s definitely a justified feeling to be upset about that fact. But there’s also the political divides between the right and left here and then in America, the divides between supporters of Israel and people who have become very, very distant from supporting and understanding the complexity of Israel defending itself in this conflict. And so I think there’s just so many aspects where Jewish unity, I mean, throughout all of Jewish history, this has been something that people try to remind their fellow Jews of but at the end of the day, if we can have as much Jewish unity as possible, despite our differences, and remember that, you know, we’re one people and one nation, we remain strong. And you know, it’s often in Jewish religious I’ve spent a lot of time in religious Jewish circles and going through programs, and I spent the summer in yeshiva, and the religious Jewish community always kind of reminds me of this teaching that, you know, when things are so good for us and it’s so good for the Jewish community around the world, we start to really get fractured and not really be as United, because things are good. And sometimes we need these crisises, crises in Jewish history that bring us united, make us united again. And unfortunately, it takes, sometimes some pretty horrible tragedies to do that, but to see the way. Let it be an example, the way after this war started, the way the Israeli people came together to support each other and host people who were fleeing the North due to the war with Hezbollah or or help with the difficult job market and economy due to the war. Just let it be a lesson that Jewish unity is always the right answer,
Sam: Because there is nothing else.
Liam: Yes.
Sam: Thank you so much for taking the time.
Liam: Sam, thank you so much. It was so nice talking to you. I really enjoyed it.
Sam: Liam, thank you for being on Who the Folk. If you know someone who you think I should interview or would be a great guest for our podcast, send an email to [email protected] that’s C-I-N-C-Y [email protected]. Thank you!